Tuesday, September 25, 2007

yesterday i had an interesting conversation about science and religion.
that science is based on facts and that so far every thing that science claims it has proven, yet religion is based on belief with no substance, no proof to the belief, that the existence of god has yet to be 'proven'.

the conversation then went on to the topic of faith schools and how faith schools should not teach children that god exists as a fact as it is yet to be proven.

i asked whether this should be implemented within households i.e parents, to which the reply was 'yes' parents should not raise there children with the belief that god exists, if the child comes to that conclusion on there own then so be it but no parent should 'teach' there child this 'concept'.

how interesting....

i told the person that i went to an Islamic school for 5 years where i was taught all 3 science's and that religion and science came hand in hand, and as a Muslim i cant choose between the 2 as Islam has proven over and over again that it is scientific and that theories of science where confirmed via the quran, according to the person religion repels science, according to Islam, the existence of god can be proven through science.

i did in fact offend the person by calling science a 'religion' according to her definition of religion in that religion established a platform for racists, discriminative ideas, stigmatising people etc... and the faster that religion is made rid of the better, so i said those who believe religion has no place in society and who follow the 'religion' of science are in fact doing exactly what she claims 'religion' is doing to others!!!

i find it interesting how 'religious' people are always deemed to be extreme in there ideas and how they are dismissive of other theories and beliefs and people are quick to judge and point the finger at religion, yet those who carry an alternative ideology are seen to be 'rational' and have a basis in there attacks on others and no matter how extreme there ideas are its deemed 'fine' as it is backed by 'proof'.

a confused world we live in, one that is full of double standards..

i will most definitely raise my future children with the belief that Allah exists and not only that but i will tell them and show them proof of the existence of god :0).


a_akak said...

Personally I don’t like the correlation between religion and science and I mean how people try to prove all science with Islam and I don’t like this because Islam is constant and science changes and even with the fundamentals of science are questionable and can be disproved one day so I don’t like the liking of the two

I have had similar discussions with various people and mostly academics as if 1+1 does not equal 2 then it is wrong but yet religion is deeper than the 1+1 theory and if you do ever bump into this science guy, please ask him to prove the start of life? (which he will answer with the big bang, then tell him, ok lets believe the big bang but who/what put those substances to react and create the big bang) and the other question and they have yet to come to grips is the human soul and ask him/her to define the soul as the most prolific scientists will refer to religion to dine it

Sorry I got carried away…………..

Fe Aman Allah

white african said...

akak thanks, actually im meeting the person again next week so i will remember to raise your points, thanks for the tip you have been helpful :)

i do think its important to mention science in relation to islam only because where living in times where science is a major factor in society but the amazing thing is that though scientific theories have later been proven wrong, quranic science never has.

its such a vaaaaaaaaaaast area to discuss, this person is extremley stubborn but we will see the out come.

Brave Heart said...

nice topic WA
i think it is depend on the people background, if they are religous background it will be easy for them to understand the relation between religion and sceince and the oppiste is right.i had big debite with slovianian girl about this issue and both of us didn't reach to conclusion because every one try to suuport his idea not try to understand the concept itself. also there is another issue the technoligical revelioution in the world now come from non religion countries and most of the world proplem come from religion countries this can give wrong indication about the religion role on the humen life and support the idea of not teaching religion on the schools.

NM said...

This believe that religion and science are incompatible comes from the struggle between the church and science pre the enlightment period but in islam science and religion go hand in hand after all islam is a "way of life" and thus encompass all.

eternal peace said...

salam alaikum sis,
hope your well inshaAllah and ramadhan going well for u, this might be a little off topic but recently i've got to know a few people that come from religious families but not too keen on religion themselves, so when they literally blaspheme in your face what do u do??

the other thing is(i no your no an agony aunt but i kinda feel like i can reach to you as a sister in the deen)i've noticed u like alot of outdoor activities and you also wear jilbab mashaAllah, we have a staff training soon inshaAllah where there will be quad biking, clay pigeon shooting etc i'm thinking if my jilbab will be suitable..if not what alternative clothing do you reckon i could wear?(this might sound silly but i've kind of recently started wearing jilbab!)

jazakAllah khayr

Monday's Child said...

you go girl!!! I am proud of you!

white african said...

brave your right, what i was trying to do was look at the argument from the other persons view point, thankfully i was calm and good humored, i didn't do what alot of Muslims tend to do which is get angry, defensive, pointing fingers,raising voices etc.. when they enter into a discussion.

this person is completely anti-religion so it is difficult argue a religious point to some one who completely be-littles religion, i think the discussion will continue next week, im going to wait until he raises th etopic.

nm your right, thanks hun, you coming to elmas tonight?

eternal waalykum assalam, thank you for considering me as a sister :) i feel the same.

well it is an awkward situation, but blasphemy is not a nice thing, i dont think its a problem to show your discomfort or voice your discomfort on this, im sure they recognize the fact that you practice the faith so its a form of disrespect to do this, if they appreciate your freindship then they will not be offended or upset if you mention this point to them.

the jilbab issue, i do wear jilbab because i feel its practicle for me and i feel comfortable in one, majority of the time when i go on outdoor activities i will wear a jilbab if its practicle (no health and safety issues) but if its not then i will wear alternative wear but i will always bear in mind the ruling for clothing i.e its loose, not transparent etc...

my recent walk up mount snowdon i ididnt wear a jilbab, i wore a mac and trousers, jilbab is not the only means of islamic clothing, so long as what you wear is not tight, revelaing etc,, then its fine, there are many options of what to wear.

hope ive been of some help :)

monday thanks thats nice of you :)

eternal peace said...

sis jazakAllah khayr sis for your advise which was both practical and suited our way of life alhamdulillah, really apprciate u taking out the time to reply in detail

please remember me in your duas

Safia speaks said...

I can´t understand people that in honesty claim Allah does not exist because it has not been proved he did!

The glorious Quran reminds us what to ask the infidels when presented with such argument: we must reply the question with another question, namely "Who created you? Who created the earths and the skies? Who can create life from barren?"

Science is a useful tool in our everyday life, but science is NOT a religion that can giv us answers to the question of creation. Science is a show-only-concept and even physical "laws" are, in fact, subject to change.

The Big Bang theory is very nice but the obious question is always: where did the matter from Big Bang come from? What created Big Bang? And since Big Bang took place in space, we shoudl ask: how was space created? What is beyond space?

Science cannot answer that, as well as science cannot permit to ask the why-question: why are we created? What is the meaning of the rotating sun, if it is going to supernova in 8 billion years?

When confronted with these questions by believers, hard core scientists always say: this is a matter for the philosophers to ponder on.

Yet, philosophers are not abiding by science laws of proof! So why accept philosophers, but not religious thinkers??

You are right about the double standarts!

Safia speaks said...

BTW, A. Akak was right: remember to ask what "life" is and what a "soul" is.

Scientists cannot define the soul. They have absolutely no idea what a soul is, even though they are souls themselves and they can see souls functioning in front of their very eyes every day!

ibeebarbie said...

Salam White African,
Great post as well as great comments, mashallah.

white african said...

safia great points thanks, im meeting th eperson today so i will certainly raise these points, thanks again, and akak the soul point you mentioned is brill :0)

thanks ibee :0)